question

Rob Farley avatar image
Rob Farley asked

[meta] Does voting more help grow the site?

This question is more for frequent users of this site, who are hoping to see it grow. If you're new here, then ignore feel free to ignore it.

Established sites (like StackOverflow) have a lot of active users. So therefore, when someone asks a question, an answer can quickly appear, pick up some votes, and so on. Ideally, AskSCC will reach that stage soon too.

So I got to thinking about the new user experience. I think the biggest difference between the way that someone finds their early days on SO compared to here is the potential for earning points. It's quite easy to get a hundreds of points very quickly on the larger sites, because frankly, there is more voting going on.

I don't want to give a bonus question to the first person who gets to a certain number of votes cast. I think that would just encourage people to vote for everything. But I would encourage anyone who reads this post to become more liberal with their voting. If in doubt, give it an upvote. It gives people some points, which increases their level of access on the site, gives them a warm fuzzy, and so on. All of this increases their chances of coming back, hopefully becoming an answerer on the site, and so the site grows.

StackOverflow has grown because people like getting points, and the badges associated with them. So vote more!

My question is... does voting actually help the site, and how can we encourage more voting to go on?

meta-asksscvotes
4 comments
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Scot Hauder avatar image Scot Hauder commented ·
+1 You looked like you needed some points Rob! I don't really care about points, I've been in IT over 20 years so I'm past the warm fuzzy and well on my way to cynical. The site will grow with more experts, such as yourself, giving high quality answers. This site, as well as SO, are great for learning. My only suggestion is to allow anyone to post comments to other's answers, 50 points is a lot when your new, posting another answer in order to reply to something five answers up isn't ideal
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Rob Farley avatar image Rob Farley commented ·
I'm not after points myself, but I think people are more encouraged to stay if the answer they write (which doesn't require points) can earn some. They feel that people have read and appreciated their contribution.
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Rob Farley avatar image Rob Farley commented ·
And... your comment probably should've been an answer. ;)
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Matt Whitfield avatar image Matt Whitfield ♦♦ commented ·
Definite +1 - I think this was a question that really needed asking...
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Håkan Winther avatar image
Håkan Winther answered

The main purpose of this site is not earning points, BUT i think it encourages people to actually contribute to the main purpose, the knowledge sharing. Personally I feel satisfied when I can help someone and I get some credit for it, and points are one way of getting credits. In the end I hope my contributions will give me some national aknowledgement.

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Grant Fritchey avatar image
Grant Fritchey answered

Well, first I had to vote your question up...

I've never hung out on StackOverflow, so I'm not really acquainted with what it's like. From what I can see here though, I think we're dealing with a chicken/egg question. Are we not getting votes because there are so few views or, are we not seeing the views on certain topics because there isn't enough voting? Hard to know. I lean towards the chief problem being the number of eyeballs. However, I will try to remember to vote more often.

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Rob Farley avatar image Rob Farley commented ·
Yes, it's a chicken/egg story, but if we can encourage extra breeding, then, umm... okay, bad analogy.
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Matt Whitfield avatar image
Matt Whitfield answered

My take on this is that the 'new user experience' is actually largely as a result of somebody googling a question - StackExchange based sites are very well suited to getting high organic search results, and it shows - a lot of the questions here already rank highly on google.

So for me, the key to getting the community more active is to try and convert the googlers into regulars - and I do think that upvoting questions does help with that. BUT I don't think it does the site any good to be upvoting questions which are ill-conceived and/or not well thought out.

One other currently untapped source of quality members would be to try and tempt some more of the 'mainstream' SSC users to participate here. I have to say I'm extremely glad to see the people that are here contributing so well, and I have personally learnt from all of you - and I would hope that some of the more mainstream users could have the same experience. Maybe one way to do that might be to include a precis of the questions asked in the SSC newsletter - that would hopefully encourage people across to come in, earn reputation etc. However, that would obviously be totally up to Steve to decide...

3 comments
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Kev Riley avatar image Kev Riley ♦♦ commented ·
+1 like the idea of having a summary in the daily SSC newsletter!
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Rob Farley avatar image Rob Farley commented ·
Yeah, absolutely. I'm not suggesting that rubbish gets voted up, but if someone's made a valid point, let's reward that (particularly if they're new on the site).
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Grant Fritchey avatar image Grant Fritchey ♦♦ commented ·
It's just hard to keep up with both the main site & this one. I'll usually hit one or the other, causing me to miss getting to answer most questions on this site and on the other one.
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Fatherjack avatar image
Fatherjack answered

I think you could also increase the interest in the site by having the 'Gurus' (anyone over 2k rep ??) add community based questions. If they are looking for a best practice answer then the rep can be given to the responses according to recommended guidlines and spark off so conversation about why people should / shouldnt do what is included in the answers.

6 comments
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Matt Whitfield avatar image Matt Whitfield ♦♦ commented ·
We did that before with the site seeder questions - perhaps we should do more of those again... I think there should certainly be a gentleman's agreement that we leave the questions for a week or so before they get a Guru answer...
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Grant Fritchey avatar image Grant Fritchey ♦♦ commented ·
There do seem to be a lot of these places popping up these days. Didn't one get started over at SQLServerPedia too? While the user population is growing, I don't think it's growing enough to support as many of these sites as we have. On the points, I wouldn't make it "free" too much because there are rewards other than points for high contributors (MVP much?) that require a method to measure contribution. Take that away, lose some of your contributors.
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Fatherjack avatar image Fatherjack ♦♦ commented ·
Mmm, thats a tricky one. Leaving a question for a week could leave someones server in a wreck just because you have xyz points here. Is there any way of receiving less points for an answer if you have rep over certain thresholds? IE if you have < 2500 rep you get 15 pts, 2501-5000 10 pts and > 5000 then 5pts? That would even out the playing field a little. Also, how about also letting someone abstain from getting rep for their answer? Or enforcing it - once you get to 7k then you do it all for 'free'?
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Kev Riley avatar image Kev Riley ♦♦ commented ·
I think Matt meant leaving the seeder questions? If anyone else asked a 'normal' question then normal rules apply! Not sure about a different point structure - we are using a commercially available engine for this site, and if they don't do it in the product, not going to be easy to implement it - and secondly, it hasn't affected the guys over at SO, there's nearly 500 users on over 10k rep and yet still new people join and participate
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Fatherjack avatar image Fatherjack ♦♦ commented ·
OK, misinterpretted the comment, I see what you mean. Maybe the fact that there are 500 people on SO means there wont be as many here..?
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TimothyAWiseman avatar image
TimothyAWiseman answered

Once you cross the first few thresholds that let you do basic things (such as being able to upvote yourself) then I think the score for a person should be irrelevant. I try not to care about my overall number of points.

On the other hand, the score for an answer can matter. For someone who is really unsure of the correct (or best out of several correct options) the number of points that answer got is a much better indicator than which one was actually selected.

So, in short I tend to be fairly liberal with what I upvote, but only when the answer is genuinely helpful and preferably the best one posted for that question yet.

2 comments
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Rob Farley avatar image Rob Farley commented ·
You can't upvote your own posts, but I don't think that's what you mean.
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TimothyAWiseman avatar image TimothyAWiseman commented ·
Yes, that doesn't quite read right when I look at it again. I meant you have to reach some threshold before you can upvote at all. I can't remember what it is offhand.
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Tom Staab avatar image
Tom Staab answered

I think this is a very good topic, but perhaps we could expand it to "How can we (as frequent supporters of this site) most effectively promote the site? I realize that is a very broad topic, but I think it's helpful to consider all possibilities.

As I see it, there are 3 basic groups of people that use this site:

1) The "gurus" with over 2,000 reputation: I believe all of us in this group tend to use the site more to help others than to request help for ourselves. Personally, I do it because I like the satisfaction of helping someone and the kind words from various users regarding helpful answers I have provided. Like Håkan, I also hope to gain some recognition through my participation here, and that was very true during the interview process for the new job I recently started.

2) The mid-level active users who have questions but also want to help others when possible: I believe this is the group we should most focus on, and I believe this is the group most influenced by the distribution of points. I completely agree with the suggestion of more seeder questions and Matt's excellent (+1) suggestion that gurus agree not to answer those questions for the first week. That would give this middle group more opportunities to share their knowledge and hopefully get the satisfaction associated with others (including gurus) acknowledging intelligent answers.

3) The once or occasional user with a quick question: Maybe some of these people will move to group 2; maybe not. The best way to help them, though, is to provide good, quick answers. Contrary to the waiting period for seeder questions, this means gurus actively participating (as we have been) to provide good answers to these questions ASAP. In addition, since these users are more often than not coming here via a search engine, improved search hits will help them as well if their question (or a similar one) was previously asked. We are up to almost 1,000 questions now!

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Matt Whitfield avatar image Matt Whitfield ♦♦ commented ·
All very sensible, sir, agree whole heartedly.
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Kev Riley avatar image
Kev Riley answered

I think it's important to emphasize as well that voting should be done (upwards) where an answer is useful. And the reverse.

The term voting is a bit misleading as it suggests that 'out of the possible answers, which one gets your vote', whereas it's more about awarding points to those answers that contain some useful info with regards to the question.

It's not uncommon to have the same answer albeit worded differently, posted in very quick succession by 2 people. If they are both right, then they should both get a vote. It's up to the OP as to which they choose as the answer. Generally I'd go for the one that gives the right answer, possibly with some supporting info, links, examples, etc. over other less 'complete' answers.

There was a bit of blurb in the faq page about this, but where has the link to the faq page gone? I don't have it at the top near my name - I'm sure it used to be there?

4 comments
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Matt Whitfield avatar image Matt Whitfield ♦♦ commented ·
Yeah, the faq did used to be there - I'm sure...
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Kev Riley avatar image Kev Riley ♦♦ commented ·
Good so it's not just me then......
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Rob Farley avatar image Rob Farley commented ·
+1 for mentioning that the votes are more like "worthy of getting some points". Not sure what happened to the faq. When I want it, I look on StackOverflow instead.
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Kev Riley avatar image Kev Riley ♦♦ commented ·
woohoo faqs back
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Ian Roke avatar image
Ian Roke answered

Sorry to dredge up an old question but I was wondering how many votes you were allowed in one day? I can't see such information in the FAQ or any other areas of the site.

I am quite generous with my handing out of votes because I feel it helps the site grow.

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Rob Farley avatar image Rob Farley commented ·
I think it's about 20... but I'm not sure.
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